Posts by Sea Breeze

12

Christians and War and the Role of Conscience (a work in progress)

by Terry in

christians and war and the role of conscience ______________ christian integrity vs duty to superior authority from the federal government’s povthe u.s. government saw jw’s as one group within a larger group of men refusing military service within existing law - for reasons of deeply held convictions.

we jw brothers weren’t the only ones affected, as evidenced by this list.. quakers.

jehovah’s witnesses.

Sea Breeze

I think any man who "categorically" refuses to protect his family (and his neighbors) from harm is a coward.

12

Christians and War and the Role of Conscience (a work in progress)

by Terry in

christians and war and the role of conscience ______________ christian integrity vs duty to superior authority from the federal government’s povthe u.s. government saw jw’s as one group within a larger group of men refusing military service within existing law - for reasons of deeply held convictions.

we jw brothers weren’t the only ones affected, as evidenced by this list.. quakers.

jehovah’s witnesses.

Sea Breeze

Fortunately, not everyone is a coward. I would not be looking forward to this soldier hunting me down.

The life story of Joe Beyrle represents an unbelievable achievement. One of the 101st Airborne's paratroopers from the "Band of Brothers" unit jumped into Normandy before getting taken prisoner by Germans during Operation Market Garden. The Germans subjected him to Gestapo torture after recapturing him twice until he successfully escaped two times as their prisoner.

images source: Wikipedia

During his transport to another prison camp Beyrle discovered the Soviet army was breaking through German defensive positions in the area. Taking advantage of this breakthrough opportunity he escaped for the second time before bringing himself to the Soviet soldiers. He successfully persuaded Battalion Commander Aleksandra Samusenko that she should allow him to join her forces which became the only female tank command in the war.

Through his service as a demolitions expert the Red Army entrusted Beyrle with a leading role while capturing Berlin and its surrounding areas.

I guess he didn't like being captured and tortured. So, he blew up Berlin. He looks pretty pissed off in that prisoner picture taken by the Nazis.

45

What is the Craziest Thing You Are Aware Of Someone Being Disfellowshipped For?

by Sea Breeze in

i knew a lady who was disfellowshipped for 20 years for smoking.

she finally went back to the kh and since they couldn't find her paperwork, (all the former elders were dead) she was allowed back in without reinstatement.

no one even remembered her.

Sea Breeze

I knew a lady who was disfellowshipped for 20 years for smoking. She finally went back to the KH and since they couldn't find her paperwork, (all the former elders were dead) she was allowed back in without reinstatement. No one even remembered her. She had quit smoking years previously and could have gone back any time. She thought the shunning was permanent. She eventually became a Christian and was shunned permanently then though.

I have always wanted to talk to someone disfellowshipped (or divorced) for "extreme spiritual endangerment". Seems like that would cover just about anything you wanted it to.

24

The Good News Is: The Great-Crowd-Of-Other-Sheep Do Not Exist

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower conflates two different groups into one fictional church-age group that according to the watchtower, are saved by works and faith/membership in the jehovah witness organization.

according to watchtower, only the now mostly dead 144k receive the promises of god regarding justification .

everbody else missed the boat and must work for their justification for a thousand years.

Sea Breeze

The WTS taught that the great crowd was a secondary group in heaven until about 1932

I did not know this. It is interesting to look back at the incrementalism that the WT used to guide people step by step into error, with the culmination being rejecting the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" (Mt. 26: 27-28)

The deal Jesus brokered with God as Mediator is very simple, & very generous. Only a Satanic cocktail of deception, lies, confusion and disorientation could get people to reject it.

24

Question for JW's: Is Jesus the Mediator of Your Prayers ?

by Sea Breeze in

praying to god “through the son jesus” has nothing to do with christ as mediator.. do jw's even know what a mediator does?.

i am in the insurance restoration construction business and have been in mediation many times when a policy holder sues an insurance company for not paying everything they believe is due them under the terms of their policy for property damage.. i am brought in as a technical expert.. in mediation, the plaintiff (policy holder) and the defendant (insurance company) are placed in separate rooms, they do not talk to each other.

they are separated because the dispute has alienated the one from the other.

Sea Breeze

What if you don't pray?

My advice is to learn how to. Otherwise: "ye have not because ye ask not" - James: 4: 2

24

The Good News Is: The Great-Crowd-Of-Other-Sheep Do Not Exist

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower conflates two different groups into one fictional church-age group that according to the watchtower, are saved by works and faith/membership in the jehovah witness organization.

according to watchtower, only the now mostly dead 144k receive the promises of god regarding justification .

everbody else missed the boat and must work for their justification for a thousand years.

Sea Breeze

The temple vision of Ezekiel I view as symbolic, mainly because of the animal sacrifices. Jesus sacrificed himself once and for all. Animal sacrifices would have no purpose in the future dispensation.

And, this has been going on for a long time. It is tempting "spiritualize" things that don't seem to fit.

That's what Augustine did when after hundreds of years Jerusalem had not been rebuilt and Jews had not returned to their homeland. The reasoning was that the literal return of the Jews must be symbolic.

Then, one day in 1948 the nation of Israel was born. All the sudden, it looks very literal and not symbolic.

A literal interpretation of the bible requires believing that the text means what it says and says what it means, unless the spiritual interpretation is suggested. Ex. "The kingdom of heaven is like..."

24

Question for JW's: Is Jesus the Mediator of Your Prayers ?

by Sea Breeze in

praying to god “through the son jesus” has nothing to do with christ as mediator.. do jw's even know what a mediator does?.

i am in the insurance restoration construction business and have been in mediation many times when a policy holder sues an insurance company for not paying everything they believe is due them under the terms of their policy for property damage.. i am brought in as a technical expert.. in mediation, the plaintiff (policy holder) and the defendant (insurance company) are placed in separate rooms, they do not talk to each other.

they are separated because the dispute has alienated the one from the other.

Sea Breeze

I'm assuming this is when JWs refrain from consuming the bread and wine?

Yes. There are just two ordinances: believers baptism and the Lord's Supper. These serve as visible signs of spiritual realties.

Then He took the cup, and after He gave thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. - Mt. 26: 27-28

24

Question for JW's: Is Jesus the Mediator of Your Prayers ?

by Sea Breeze in

praying to god “through the son jesus” has nothing to do with christ as mediator.. do jw's even know what a mediator does?.

i am in the insurance restoration construction business and have been in mediation many times when a policy holder sues an insurance company for not paying everything they believe is due them under the terms of their policy for property damage.. i am brought in as a technical expert.. in mediation, the plaintiff (policy holder) and the defendant (insurance company) are placed in separate rooms, they do not talk to each other.

they are separated because the dispute has alienated the one from the other.

Sea Breeze

Praying to God “through the Son Jesus” has NOTHING to do with Christ as Mediator.

Do JW's even know what a mediator does?

I am in the insurance restoration construction business and have been in mediation many times when a policy holder sues an insurance company for not paying everything they believe is due them under the terms of their policy for property damage.

I am brought in as a technical expert.

In mediation, the plaintiff (policy holder) and the defendant (insurance company) are placed in separate rooms, they do not talk to each other. They are separated because the dispute has alienated the one from the other. This is what sin has done to us and God.

The Mediator then goes back and forth explaining the points each side is making and offers a financial compromise, one that both parties can walk away with and feel justified (made whole).

The process can go on for hours, even most of the day. If they are still too far apart, both parties forsake the mediation process and the dispute will proceed to trial.

Many people don’t want Jesus as their Mediator, and so they must proceed to trial, ALONE; after they die. (See Hebrews 9: 15)

There is ONLY ONE New Covenant in the Greek Scriptures and ONLY ONE Mediator - Jesus.

Jesus mediates our upcoming court case (See Hebrews 9: 15) not our prayers., with the blood value of his sinless life.

And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant [not your prayers] - Hebrews 9: 15

The deal that Christ has brokered on our behalf is called the New Covenant, and it is “for the forgiveness of sins” not earthly or heavenly destinies. That is a Watchtower lie, similar to all their other lies that have been proven to be false regarding several false return dates. (That alone should make a person skeptical of Watchtower teachings).

Mt. 26: 27-28 - “And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many [not few as in only 144] for forgiveness of sins”.

This agreement “for the forgiveness of sins” is rejected by 20 million people each year during the Watchtower Satanic version of the Lord’s supper.

And, yes. It is Satanic. The devil is our mutual enemy (believer and non-believer) and he does not want anyone to have their sins forgiven. This offer is not made to Satan and his demon forces. They are damned forever and they know it. So, they want to take as many gullible people with them as possible.

The entire book of Hebrews goes into great detail on how the NEW COVENANT works and why it is so much better than the one God brokered through Moses in the Old Testament.

24

The Good News Is: The Great-Crowd-Of-Other-Sheep Do Not Exist

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower conflates two different groups into one fictional church-age group that according to the watchtower, are saved by works and faith/membership in the jehovah witness organization.

according to watchtower, only the now mostly dead 144k receive the promises of god regarding justification .

everbody else missed the boat and must work for their justification for a thousand years.

Sea Breeze

@Vidqun,

Perhaps you meant: (there will be) "no temple in heaven" ? I could agree with that in the eternal state, after the 1k rule.

But, it is clearly there now:

Is. 6: 1-4 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train[a] of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
the whole earth is full of his glory!”[b]

4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the [temple] house was filled with smoke.

Second point, there is not going to be a literal third (stone and mortar) temple on earth either.

Here is a fair handed discussion of the Temple Ezekiel saw during the 1K reign. It gives fair treatment to both the literal and figurative views Christians have.

Third point, there is no Pre-tribulation rapture:

I believe it is more likely than not. Believers will be "saved from wrath".

Romans 5: 9 being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This is a fair handed discussion on this topic as well.

24

The Good News Is: The Great-Crowd-Of-Other-Sheep Do Not Exist

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower conflates two different groups into one fictional church-age group that according to the watchtower, are saved by works and faith/membership in the jehovah witness organization.

according to watchtower, only the now mostly dead 144k receive the promises of god regarding justification .

everbody else missed the boat and must work for their justification for a thousand years.

Sea Breeze

Vidquin,

The Kingdom of God exists in its mystery form during the church age. (Do a good study on the Kingdom parables.) In other words, God dwells inside of believers (in the temple of their hearts) and is not readily discernable. Here he writes his laws on believer's hearts instead of tablets of stone. This is a great relief to believers NOW, since both Sin and the Law are burdens to everyone, believers and unbelievers alike.

This happens when the old spirit of man is sliced off and replaced with a new spirit, one that is sinless. (The circumcision of the heart/spirit) This is how God then resides and fellowships directly with the believer, in this life.

"The hour is coming when we must worship God in spirit and truth" - Jesus

So, believers have a dual nature to contend with. Even with the internal conflicts this presents, the POWER of sin is broken (not eliminated) and is a huge improvement over when we were "dead in our trespasses".

When the believer is glorified with a sinless body, then the transformation will be complete and the sin nature is 100% eliminated from our being. Only then can the believer enter into the presence of God, body, soul, and spirit.

Both premillennialist and amillennialist agree on this. Where they disagree is whether or not the 1K yr. reign is literal or figurative. This is not a salvation issue.

However, until Augustine the early church leaders nearly all believed in a literal 1k rule of Jesus on earth for 1000 years in a literal rebuilt earthly temple in Jerusalem. Many bible prophecies require this to be in place before the coming of the Lord.

So, to recap: The temple of God is:

1. The hearts of born-again believers (Now)

2. In heaven (Now) - Isiah 6: 1-4

3. In Jerusalem (in a future rebuilt temple ) debatable among Christians today but supported by early church leaders.

@Rattigan

"There are millions of Christians who have not been anointed with holy spirit. Anointed, not born of and indwelt by the holy spirit."

I agree with VH7. If a person is not born again with Jesus himself living in their heart, they do not belong to Christ and are a self-deluded "weed" growing alongside the tares.

Romans 8:9 - "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him"

Col. 1:27 - "to whom God willed to make known what the wealth of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles is, the mystery that is Christ in you, the hope of glory".
.